Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

A place for players in Zimbabwe to communicate.
Chezza
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chezza » Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:04 am

radar wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:10 pm
How far off the pace is this guy? Meets all the minimums (sturdy making up for low endurance).

stresseddesserts >> Grunter Pavy >> Details
Player Info
27y13w | 65,194 rating | $20,836 wage (0% discount)

Right hand batsman | Right arm Wrist spin

Talents Sturdy
Nationality Zimbabwe Zimbabwe
Form reasonable
Fatigue revived
Experience spectacular
Captaincy accomplished
Skills Summary
Batsman exceptional
Bowler ordinary
Keeper ordinary
Allrounder average
Skills
Batting exceptional Endurance outstanding
Bowling poor Technique exceptional
Keeping ordinary Power world class
Fielding exceptional
Pavy is a quality player and, meets all minimum requirements with the talent. Will be very useful for Nat tours.

Only reason he’s not in the squad is that at the top end we’re well stacked for bats. In bowling Zimbabwe is very short but our batting is strong and Pavy isn’t quite as good as the current guys yet. All touring guys upcoming are WC summary minimum in batting .He’s a certain future Nat though.

Even with the talent, another level of endurance would be handy.

radar
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:00 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by radar » Sat Jul 01, 2023 9:17 pm

Chezza wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:04 am
radar wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:10 pm
How far off the pace is this guy? Meets all the minimums (sturdy making up for low endurance).

stresseddesserts >> Grunter Pavy >> Details
Player Info
27y13w | 65,194 rating | $20,836 wage (0% discount)

Right hand batsman | Right arm Wrist spin

Talents Sturdy
Nationality Zimbabwe Zimbabwe
Form reasonable
Fatigue revived
Experience spectacular
Captaincy accomplished
Skills Summary
Batsman exceptional
Bowler ordinary
Keeper ordinary
Allrounder average
Skills
Batting exceptional Endurance outstanding
Bowling poor Technique exceptional
Keeping ordinary Power world class
Fielding exceptional
Pavy is a quality player and, meets all minimum requirements with the talent. Will be very useful for Nat tours.

Only reason he’s not in the squad is that at the top end we’re well stacked for bats. In bowling Zimbabwe is very short but our batting is strong and Pavy isn’t quite as good as the current guys yet. All touring guys upcoming are WC summary minimum in batting .He’s a certain future Nat though.

Even with the talent, another level of endurance would be handy.
Thanks mate, appreciate the update.

Currently training power until he's 28, then I'll have a think. I think he's someway off elite so I'll probably continue for a while but if he's likely to tour, let me know and I'll switch to fitness if that's helpful to you. I'm unlikely to train fitness before it's needed for NATs because his fatigue seems fine opening twice a week for me. Maybe ageing a year will change that that.

Collywobbles
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Collywobbles » Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:44 pm

His power is plenty so I’d switch to fitness, get a pop and then go back to primaries. He’d be a shoe in if you can get him to world class in either primary.

radar
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:00 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by radar » Tue Jul 04, 2023 7:55 pm

Ok, switched him from strength to batting. Still unconvinced by his endurance requirements for my club so, like before, let me know if he's in danger of touring and I'll switch to fitness for you at that point. Because if I look at the age profile of the current tourers, I don't think it'll be soon

Chezza
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chezza » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:01 am

Senior One Day - Tour 1 summary

Not going to lie. My first tour as head of Zimbabwe was a shocker. We finished on 1 win and 4 losses.

Positives were:
- Schumann, O’Leary and Mlambo batted well throughout. O’Leary scored 100 in game 3, Mlambo scoring a winning 140no in game 4.
-Match ratings were decent. Rated 269k in game one and outrated opponents in first three games.
- New assistant ss888 got to set some orders for games 4 and 5.
- Giving youngster Maraire 3 games experience. Bowled ok with a couple of 3 wicket hauls.

Negatives were:
-Bowling and fielding was just terrible. Had bowlers suited to the conditions but no one fired with the ball. Best bowling was Mzemas 4/64 in the final game.
-Dropped catches killed us and we missed as many as we caught.
-Jason Nye’s first tour was a howler scoring 1,1,0 and 10 opening the batting.

Game 1 v England. Posted 227 on uneven/windy batting first against England. Their AR Stoddart fired with the bat in the chase and England won by 3 wickets.
Game 2 v Netherlands. Sometimes the game hates you. This was the game. Batted first against Netherlands on hard/cloudy. Netherlands bowled 30 overs of medium pace and spin overs and totally destroyed us with them. Our array of fasties and fast mediums were absolutely carted in reply. Netherlands won this game by 7 wickets and 15 overs to spare.
Game 3 v Kenya. Posted 300 on windy/flat. O’Leary with a ton, but realistically was probably 20-30 short. Kenya chasing it down with 3 wickets in hand at the end.
Game 4 v India. India were undefeated coming into this match and made a huge score of 280 on the hard/cloudy. We looked gone in the chase the whole way but Mlambo played a blinder with 140no and we won by 1 wicket.
Game 5 v Canada. Outclassed this entire game on hard/windy. Openers for Canada put on over 150 for the first wicket and were never headed. They posted 350 and we never went close. Bowled out for 230.

Lots of lessons from this tour, but the biggest one being our bowlers aren’t competitive compared to other teams and it’s clearly our biggest issue, with the pipeline looking poor too. While a number have World Class summary, no one with WC summaries between 26-30 have bowling talents which are needed on hard and flat wickets to create chances.

One mistake I’ll own of this tour was only taking 1 spinner. Collywobbles was keen on two. Even though our pitches heavily favoured seam, we ended up with 3 windy weather games, so an extra spinner would have helped with the variations. England topped the group with only 1 spinner as well, so not sure how important that really was but something we’ll do differently in future tours.

Onwards to the next tour the Div 3 T20s where I hope we can put up a better showing.

Happy to discuss any selections and thoughts!
Cheers,
Chezza

Collywobbles
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Collywobbles » Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:35 am

Hi to anyone reading the forum and interested in Zimbabwe cricket.
I’ve been scouting the 21-25 age group. Some promising players as expected given the brilliant job of the youth guys.
One recurring theme is fielding.
Anyone with anything less than spectacular fielding isn’t going to be a Nat.
We’ve all got our own ways of training, but I’d suggest anyone with a 21 year old hits fielding until spectacular (probably exceptional for a spinner) before training primaries and finally looking at power/ strength.

As importantly, it’ll help your team. Poor fielding teams don’t win matches and it’s a quick way to improve your match ratings.

Give any of us in the set up a shout if you need help training players.

Chezza
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chezza » Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:45 pm

Will add that we have no fast bowlers that look close to being future nats between the ages of 22-25. No wrist spinners either. So current 20/ 21 year old bowlers that are trained well are very likely to play senior nats by 25/26.

Chezza
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chezza » Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:22 am

Hi all,
Just an update on how we're going.

Last week we finished last in the Nat Div 3 T20s. We came into the tournament ranked 18th and by winning 0.5 games (had a draw against Scotland where we couldn't get 1 run off the final ball with the set batsman), we remain 18th.

It is very clear that we need to rebuild hard and we have overhauled the squad with a much younger outlook. With only 1.5 wins in 10 games of Division 3 in my tenure so far, it is very clear that now is the time to develop players to return us to the top divs in a few seasons.

Despite our bats never performing our batting is our strength. We have so much depth in batting, that there's not much difference between the skills of our 27 and 30 year olds (except experience). However, where we're are really short is in bowling. Our older guys have really struggled to take wickets in the first two tours, so across the next few tours we'll be picking some guys who maybe a level behind but will end up being better players later.

Apologies to the managers of world class bats that are 29/30 that have been dropped from the squad. But there's not much to be gained by them playing, given we can't qualify for the cups and are rated 18th in both SOD and T20. My player O'Leary has been included in the cull.

There's a few 23 year olds now in the squad - Tendai Plummer, Derek Jackson and Teboho Kamungozi. Jackson is a little while off, but Plummer isn't far away from a nat call up and Kamungozi will tour in the upcoming one day tournament.

Happy to discuss any of these selections here in the forums or by PM.

Cheers,
Chezza

TopManager
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:14 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:00 pm

Hi Chezza,

A few thoughts...

1) The first point is that there are still 3 SOD tours left before WC qualification is decided. Whilst not easy, I think the intent should be to get promoted at the next SOD tour with the strongest possible squad. Whilst Zimbabwe haven't done well thus far, achieving 3 wins (with a promotion) is possible and would make WC qualification look more achievable. I think as long as there is a possible chance of WC qualification, you should go for it - it's way to early to be thinking about the team's long-term prospects at the expense of short-term success. Playing Kamungozi (and players like him) will just make WC qualification impossible, even though there remains a small, plausible chance.

2) You talk a lot about developing players. How practically do you do this? You don't decide the player's academies, you can influence a player's training programme regardless of whether or not they are in the national squad, the only real influence you have is on experience. Moreover, in my experience, the benefit gained from playing a handful of internationals to increase experience is quite marginal - therefore, I don't think a long-term strategy like this will pay the dividends you believe.

3) If you were to play young players such as Kamungozi (now or even in a season or two), he along with others would make the Zimbabwe team very uncompetitive. Zimbabwe would likely start the next WC qualification cycle in division 3, making the prospect of world cup qualification (and making use of those experience gains) much more difficult than it needs to be,

You may think 'Nothing else has worked, we need to shake things up'. Whilst I understand the logic, after only two tours, any such conclusion is premature, pick your best players, review the tactics, and be comfortable with losing some games with an unbalanced squad,

Good luck,
TM
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Chezza
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chezza » Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:37 am

Hi TopManager,

I appreciate your post as it's very in depth and has some differing views to me, so I'll address them here:


A few thoughts...

1) The first point is that there are still 3 SOD tours left before WC qualification is decided. Whilst not easy, I think the intent should be to get promoted at the next SOD tour with the strongest possible squad. Whilst Zimbabwe haven't done well thus far, achieving 3 wins (with a promotion) is possible and would make WC qualification look more achievable. I think as long as there is a possible chance of WC qualification, you should go for it - it's way to early to be thinking about the team's long-term prospects at the expense of short-term success. Playing Kamungozi (and players like him) will just make WC qualification impossible, even though there remains a small, plausible chance.

Disagree on this first point. While you are correct there are three tours left, we're the bottom team in Div 3 currently. Even if we pulled a miracle and somehow beat three other Div 3 teams to get to Div 2, we'd still be on zero qualification points. Somehow from there we'd need to win a further 3 games in Division 2, just to stay up. Staying in Div 2, still wouldn't get us close to qualifying. It's not like we're 13th or 14th ranked. I've taken over an 18th ranked side and we're still 18th ranked.

Where you have a fair argument is whether we should still be picking our best bowlers which are these guys:

On the most recent Div 3 tour on seam friendly pitches this is how they performed:
Shingayi Mzema lf 6 wickets at 24.17
Tinashe Maraire lfm 5 wickets at 33.60
Makabongwe Muzadzi 4 wickets at 43.00
Wiriranai Mofokeng rws 4 wickets at 45.50
Natie Bromley lfm 4 wickets at 30.25
Guy McKenna rm 3 wickets at 35.00
Andre Krige rf 3 wickets at 62.00
Joseph "Richard" rfm 3 wickets at 48.33
Mathew Frank rfm 2 wickets at 57.50

Now Mzema is nearly 32 and he is still our second best seamer. Frank 32, Bromley is over 30, the others 28/29. The biggest issue with these guys is they lack talents to get any triggered wickets. Our bowlers are the main problem and there is no depth there. Maraire is 26, the rest are 28/29 and older.

Our bats weren't much better:

Popeye Colreavy 85 runs at 28.33
Roelof Willsmore 78 runs at 26.00
Johnson Mangwende 45 runs at 15.00
Jimmy Marimo 41 runs at 13.67
Mathew Frank (AR) 24 runs at 12.00
Guy McKenna (AR) 21 runs at 7.00
Jason Nye 12 runs at 3.00
Natie Bromley (AR) 10 runs at 3.33

Only Schumann 70 runs @ 56, O'Leary 118 runs @ 63 and Mlambo 216 runs @ 108 performed. Mlambo has been retained and there's a fair argument to keep Schumann and O'Leary in. However, as for the rest averaging 20s in Div 3 nats isn't going to win games regardless. Where we have depth is batting, so a good opportunity to give the next rung a go.


2) You talk a lot about developing players. How practically do you do this? You don't decide the player's academies, you can influence a player's training programme regardless of whether or not they are in the national squad, the only real influence you have is on experience. Moreover, in my experience, the benefit gained from playing a handful of internationals to increase experience is quite marginal - therefore, I don't think a long-term strategy like this will pay the dividends you believe.

This is a very fair point and I won't disagree with you here as there are no future guarantees of success. While I have done some follow-up on managers with players of potential nats, we are unable to be able to track who is in the best academies. What we can flag is experience and fielding being low for age as these are the two areas that get left behind most often. What I can also say is by looking at a players skills you can ascertain if they are in a decent enough academy. Looking at Kamungozi for example its clear you have him in a strong academy as his bowling skills are the highest for someone his age.

Manager 2001 (Newball Slappers), has sadly disappeared but not gone bot as he was a pavilion member. This has taken a large chunk of the quality pool out of the 24-27 year old Zimbabwe age group as these future nats haven't been trained properly. Wouldn't have been an issue for Australia, but for us it's been a disaster. As nat manager, I kind of always hope that the future Zimbabwe nats end up at a team like Direwolves, Jacksons Barbers or your club VVV, as you know they will be trained well and get the right experience. That can't be said for a number of other players, so it is a bit of a risk bringing in some guys earlier. My two club teams both have deluxe academies, so when I next rebuild I'm hoping to be able to pick up a batch of future nat quality Zimbabwians and help improve the future nat pool. Unfortunately I'm stuck with 3 of South Africa's best currently :lol:


3) If you were to play young players such as Kamungozi (now or even in a season or two), he along with others would make the Zimbabwe team very uncompetitive. Zimbabwe would likely start the next WC qualification cycle in division 3, making the prospect of world cup qualification (and making use of those experience gains) much more difficult than it needs to be,

I don't agree playing Kamungozi (now or even in a season or two) will make us any less competitive. Yes expert experience isn't great, but he's now exceptional bowling summary and with Old Ball Bowler talent he is likely to perform just as well if not better than the current lot of players. The other thing which is missed a bit with younger players is that having a couple can help with fatigue on later tour days. While a number of younger players have been added to the squad, some of them like Derek Jackson are still a while off and the core of our touring teams will still be 27/28 years of age.

Also as a reference with Kamungozi, great work on training such a quality player. For comparison, our best right arm finger spinner is currently Austin Ballans. He's 29 and does have a talent, with world class summary. Now he's a handy player. But I can guarantee he would not be in any other nat side. But we are so short in bowling that he's made the team recently, even though he still is only at outstanding experience. With better experience he would be close to elite summary now and that would have made him a far better proposition right now.


You may think Nothing else has worked, we need to shake things up. Whilst I understand the logic, after only two tours, any such conclusion is premature, pick your best players, review the tactics, and be comfortable with losing some games with an unbalanced squad,

This is partially true, however I'd just like to reinforce that the full intention is to win every match. However, given the situation we're in if I have the option of picking players who are younger, have a talent but are one summary level behind the old guys I will be selecting the younger player.

I'd like to finish by saying you are one of the managers that is keeping Zimbabwe going into the future, so from me personally thankyou for your great work with the training on these players. All four of your Zimbabwe seniors are future nats and your youth squad is one of the best in the game, so well done!

As always happy to discuss further in here and I'm always happy to hear differing opinions. I was involved recently in the team that helped turn around the fortunes of the Sri Lankan youths and while Zimbabwean seniors is going to take longer, I'm very keen to give it a good go.

MOD-quirkilyalive
MOD
Posts: 2810
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:39 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by MOD-quirkilyalive » Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:17 pm

Chezza wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:37 am
Even if we pulled a miracle and somehow beat three other Div 3 teams to get to Div 2, we'd still be on zero qualification points.
intriguing discussion, i'm unaware of what you mean in the quoted text, so just to confirm, over the last couple terms, 35's been the minimum quali points you'd like to be the 12th side for a wc. You are at 2 at the minute, so, either need:

a) 9 in fifteen wins and 5 points from one division 2 tour and 10 points from a division one tour over the next three. (so consecutive promotions in the next two tours basically) to get to 35.

or

b) 12 wins in fifteen games and two division two tours in the next two giving ten more to get to 36.

eitherways a very tall task.
United XI|Blobs of Metal|West Indies NAT Manager
Becoming more irritating, post by post

Collywobbles
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Collywobbles » Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:04 pm

There is more than 1 thing to think of here.
The job of the international manager is ultimately to win matches. At Zimbabwe we have a small talent pool and the deal is to get the best out of what you have.
The second task of the manager is to have an eye on the legacy he leaves behind. I'd like to think that when I left, the legacy was strong, both in that we'd qualified for the World Cup and done so with a team of mainly under 30s ensuring the new guy had the majority of the basis of a side, but with added experience.

What Chezza is clearly trying to do is to maximise experience in players by picking a young side.
What he may be doing is limiting our chances of winning matches.

Now the calculation is that WC qualification isn't happening and that may or may not be true.
However, if chezza remains in charge and he's not won any matches, his rating points will be low. That means our chances of hosting will be low, meaning we're less likely to get pitches to suit whatever attack we have. It appears that we have limited amounts of quicks coming through the ranks in the short-term, so ideally we're going to want pitches that are slow or dry. If we don't get ranking points, we have less chance of achieving that. Judging by what we have, I'd personally not relish a tournament on Uneven or Hard wickets.

The calculation needs to be whether the increased experience through exposure to the international scene will offset the ability to win and lack of points.

Thats up to Chezza and when his term ends, if he wishes to continue, he'll need to justify that to anyone voting. Where he's undoubtedly right is that we're going in the wrong direction, having gone from 10th in ODI to 18th and managed to make a below par T20 performance even worse.
It's clear something has to change.

On the bright side, we have a U20 team that's won tournaments, so maybe giving them exposure early helps us? Maybe they're too young? I'm really excited about the 21-24 year olds I have in my main and affiliate team. We've got a chance of being very decent in 3-4 seasons.

TopManager
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:14 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:39 pm

MOD-quirkilyalive wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 5:17 pm
Chezza wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:37 am
Even if we pulled a miracle and somehow beat three other Div 3 teams to get to Div 2, we'd still be on zero qualification points.
intriguing discussion, i'm unaware of what you mean in the quoted text, so just to confirm, over the last couple terms, 35's been the minimum quali points you'd like to be the 12th side for a wc. You are at 2 at the minute, so, either need:

a) 9 in fifteen wins and 5 points from one division 2 tour and 10 points from a division one tour over the next three. (so consecutive promotions in the next two tours basically) to get to 35.

or

b) 12 wins in fifteen games and two division two tours in the next two giving ten more to get to 36.

eitherways a very tall task.
It's easy to forget how many promotions are achieved by very small margins - luck plays a huge part and can often be the difference between promotion/relegation. In Season 46, Zimbabwe picked up two, tight back-to-back SOD promotions. It can't be ruled out this could be achieved again if Zimbabwe get some luck and pick their best squad.

TopManager
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:14 am

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:43 pm

Chezza wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:37 am
Hi TopManager,

I appreciate your post as it's very in depth and has some differing views to me, so I'll address them here:


A few thoughts...

1) The first point is that there are still 3 SOD tours left before WC qualification is decided. Whilst not easy, I think the intent should be to get promoted at the next SOD tour with the strongest possible squad. Whilst Zimbabwe haven't done well thus far, achieving 3 wins (with a promotion) is possible and would make WC qualification look more achievable. I think as long as there is a possible chance of WC qualification, you should go for it - it's way to early to be thinking about the team's long-term prospects at the expense of short-term success. Playing Kamungozi (and players like him) will just make WC qualification impossible, even though there remains a small, plausible chance.

Disagree on this first point. While you are correct there are three tours left, we're the bottom team in Div 3 currently. Even if we pulled a miracle and somehow beat three other Div 3 teams to get to Div 2, we'd still be on zero qualification points. Somehow from there we'd need to win a further 3 games in Division 2, just to stay up. Staying in Div 2, still wouldn't get us close to qualifying. It's not like we're 13th or 14th ranked. I've taken over an 18th ranked side and we're still 18th ranked.

Where you have a fair argument is whether we should still be picking our best bowlers which are these guys:

On the most recent Div 3 tour on seam friendly pitches this is how they performed:
Shingayi Mzema lf 6 wickets at 24.17
Tinashe Maraire lfm 5 wickets at 33.60
Makabongwe Muzadzi 4 wickets at 43.00
Wiriranai Mofokeng rws 4 wickets at 45.50
Natie Bromley lfm 4 wickets at 30.25
Guy McKenna rm 3 wickets at 35.00
Andre Krige rf 3 wickets at 62.00
Joseph "Richard" rfm 3 wickets at 48.33
Mathew Frank rfm 2 wickets at 57.50

Now Mzema is nearly 32 and he is still our second best seamer. Frank 32, Bromley is over 30, the others 28/29. The biggest issue with these guys is they lack talents to get any triggered wickets. Our bowlers are the main problem and there is no depth there. Maraire is 26, the rest are 28/29 and older.

Our bats weren't much better:

Popeye Colreavy 85 runs at 28.33
Roelof Willsmore 78 runs at 26.00
Johnson Mangwende 45 runs at 15.00
Jimmy Marimo 41 runs at 13.67
Mathew Frank (AR) 24 runs at 12.00
Guy McKenna (AR) 21 runs at 7.00
Jason Nye 12 runs at 3.00
Natie Bromley (AR) 10 runs at 3.33

Only Schumann 70 runs @ 56, O'Leary 118 runs @ 63 and Mlambo 216 runs @ 108 performed. Mlambo has been retained and there's a fair argument to keep Schumann and O'Leary in. However, as for the rest averaging 20s in Div 3 nats isn't going to win games regardless. Where we have depth is batting, so a good opportunity to give the next rung a go.


2) You talk a lot about developing players. How practically do you do this? You don't decide the player's academies, you can influence a player's training programme regardless of whether or not they are in the national squad, the only real influence you have is on experience. Moreover, in my experience, the benefit gained from playing a handful of internationals to increase experience is quite marginal - therefore, I don't think a long-term strategy like this will pay the dividends you believe.

This is a very fair point and I won't disagree with you here as there are no future guarantees of success. While I have done some follow-up on managers with players of potential nats, we are unable to be able to track who is in the best academies. What we can flag is experience and fielding being low for age as these are the two areas that get left behind most often. What I can also say is by looking at a players skills you can ascertain if they are in a decent enough academy. Looking at Kamungozi for example its clear you have him in a strong academy as his bowling skills are the highest for someone his age.

Manager 2001 (Newball Slappers), has sadly disappeared but not gone bot as he was a pavilion member. This has taken a large chunk of the quality pool out of the 24-27 year old Zimbabwe age group as these future nats haven't been trained properly. Wouldn't have been an issue for Australia, but for us it's been a disaster. As nat manager, I kind of always hope that the future Zimbabwe nats end up at a team like Direwolves, Jacksons Barbers or your club VVV, as you know they will be trained well and get the right experience. That can't be said for a number of other players, so it is a bit of a risk bringing in some guys earlier. My two club teams both have deluxe academies, so when I next rebuild I'm hoping to be able to pick up a batch of future nat quality Zimbabwians and help improve the future nat pool. Unfortunately I'm stuck with 3 of South Africa's best currently :lol:


3) If you were to play young players such as Kamungozi (now or even in a season or two), he along with others would make the Zimbabwe team very uncompetitive. Zimbabwe would likely start the next WC qualification cycle in division 3, making the prospect of world cup qualification (and making use of those experience gains) much more difficult than it needs to be,

I don't agree playing Kamungozi (now or even in a season or two) will make us any less competitive. Yes expert experience isn't great, but he's now exceptional bowling summary and with Old Ball Bowler talent he is likely to perform just as well if not better than the current lot of players. The other thing which is missed a bit with younger players is that having a couple can help with fatigue on later tour days. While a number of younger players have been added to the squad, some of them like Derek Jackson are still a while off and the core of our touring teams will still be 27/28 years of age.

Also as a reference with Kamungozi, great work on training such a quality player. For comparison, our best right arm finger spinner is currently Austin Ballans. He's 29 and does have a talent, with world class summary. Now he's a handy player. But I can guarantee he would not be in any other nat side. But we are so short in bowling that he's made the team recently, even though he still is only at outstanding experience. With better experience he would be close to elite summary now and that would have made him a far better proposition right now.


You may think Nothing else has worked, we need to shake things up. Whilst I understand the logic, after only two tours, any such conclusion is premature, pick your best players, review the tactics, and be comfortable with losing some games with an unbalanced squad,

This is partially true, however I'd just like to reinforce that the full intention is to win every match. However, given the situation we're in if I have the option of picking players who are younger, have a talent but are one summary level behind the old guys I will be selecting the younger player.

I'd like to finish by saying you are one of the managers that is keeping Zimbabwe going into the future, so from me personally thankyou for your great work with the training on these players. All four of your Zimbabwe seniors are future nats and your youth squad is one of the best in the game, so well done!

As always happy to discuss further in here and I'm always happy to hear differing opinions. I was involved recently in the team that helped turn around the fortunes of the Sri Lankan youths and while Zimbabwean seniors is going to take longer, I'm very keen to give it a good go.
Thanks for your detailed and generous reply. Good luck with the upcoming tours.

epcguy
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:31 pm

Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by epcguy » Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:20 am

Hi

The first thing I can say is that this is already a step in the right direction. For a while the Senior side was so quiet and managers didnt know what was going on. Hats off to you gents for opening these discussions up for people to at least understand all the issues around being at least partially successful.

I agree will Colly on the fact that we will never be constantly world beaters but by leaving a legacy you have been successful.

Good Luck and keep pulling them Youths
Staindrop Village Image YOD 1.1 Champions Seasons 46,47,48,49,51 Y20/20 1.1 Champions Season 47,49,50,51
Staindrop Rockets Image YOD 1.1 Champions Season 47,48,51 Y20/20 1.1 Champions Seasons 46,47,56
Ex Zimbabwe Youth Manager Image U20 T20 World Cup Winners S55 & U20 One Day World Cup Winners S56

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