Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

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MD-Summit
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Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by MD-Summit » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:26 am

A place to discuss all things Senior National Team related
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YorkshirePudding
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by YorkshirePudding » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:25 am

I see the last post was from January and it is now August.

I was rather surprised to see my club number 10 with average batting and a capable summary (One Day batting average of 6), got promoted to number 7 internationally.

Are there no Zimbabwean allrounders worth playing at national level? I know most of them used to be mine (Nicklin & Jennings above) but are there no others coming through?
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cleanprophet
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by cleanprophet » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Who knows? The current management set-up did the job a few seasons ago and were utterly abysmal. They'd been playing FTP for a reasonable time but shaped like a total novice. I'd hoped they'd be a tad more clued up this time around but it appears not with crazy team/squad selections and a string of losses. Ah well, maybe we'll get a proper manager in 2 season's time. :thumbsup

TopManager
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm

CP - Spot on! Unfortunately, I can't say I'm surprised having seen the orders Helen produced in her last tenure.

As a result, I would be extremely grateful if someone from the current set up could explain the following selections...

1) What skills or attributes contributed to them selecting a 24-year-old batsman (Rick Fidock) in the touring squad? Does the management team believe secondaries are relevant?

2) Keplar Tahir (30 Years old), John Picket (29), Isaac Mosena (29) have all played all the first 3 games, is the Zimbabwean management team thinking about fatigue management in any way?

3) Travis Moolman has an opening talent, how come he hasn't opened the batting on either occasion he played?

I look forward to a response,
TM
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Chepu
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chepu » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:28 pm

Well at least the current management is selecting squad and doing orders unlike previous management. Funny to see someone from that management raise questions. Looks like people conveniently forget when they are involved or think they have gone unnoticed and no one would remember who was a part of the management and who wasn't.

Edit- Top Manager- this is for the previous management in which you were not involved :thumbsup
Last edited by Chepu on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kenya NAT manager (Season 43-52), Zimbabwe U19 manager (Season 30-41), India U19 manager (Season 24-25)
Champions- U19 T20 WC S35, U19 OD Division 1 S31 & S33, NAT OD Division 1 S45 & S46, Zimbabwe T20 1.1- S47 & S49, YOD 1.1 - S44 & S33,
Runner up- U19 OD WC S32 & S26, Semifinalist- U19 T20 WC S31, NAT OD WC S45, NAT T20 WC S52

Chepu
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chepu » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm

TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm

1) What skills or attributes contributed to them selecting a 24-year-old batsman (Rick Fidock) in the touring squad? Does the management team believe secondaries are relevant?
Sorry I am not involved in Zimbabwe and this reply is not because Fidock is my player- But here is my response for this question-

If Fidock was in Kenya he would have walked into best xi last season itself. And there are a number of teams touring young players with low secondaries (or at least did last season). If you lack in some parameter I would definitely want someone with high primaries and low secondaries who is 24 or 25 or 26 than have a 29 yo with lower primaries and better secondaries and then look into filling that gap again in 1 or 2 season when that guy plops with another stop gap average player.

Of course having said that I would have expected a message from management asking me to work on his secondaries as he is still on primaries training which I have not received but let us not criticize someone for the sake of it or because you would have done things differently. Everyone has different thoughts for how they want to proceed and if they have been voted in, let them work with their plan. Works- Great, Doesn't work- they get shown the door next time.

As for his skills- WC keeping, batting excep (last pop in feb so should be close to WC), tech- excep (last pop in May).

The other 2 questions are good but don't think you will recieve a reply by posting here as I don;t think any of them are active on forums. Try messaging them if you need a response. :thumbsup
Kenya NAT manager (Season 43-52), Zimbabwe U19 manager (Season 30-41), India U19 manager (Season 24-25)
Champions- U19 T20 WC S35, U19 OD Division 1 S31 & S33, NAT OD Division 1 S45 & S46, Zimbabwe T20 1.1- S47 & S49, YOD 1.1 - S44 & S33,
Runner up- U19 OD WC S32 & S26, Semifinalist- U19 T20 WC S31, NAT OD WC S45, NAT T20 WC S52

TopManager
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:17 pm

Chepu wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm
TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm

1) What skills or attributes contributed to them selecting a 24-year-old batsman (Rick Fidock) in the touring squad? Does the management team believe secondaries are relevant?
Sorry I am not involved in Zimbabwe and this reply is not because Fidock is my player- But here is my response for this question-

If Fidock was in Kenya he would have walked into best xi last season itself. And there are a number of teams touring young players with low secondaries (or at least did last season). If you lack in some parameter I would definitely want someone with high primaries and low secondaries who is 24 or 25 or 26 than have a 29 yo with lower primaries and better secondaries and then look into filling that gap again in 1 or 2 season when that guy plops with another stop gap average player.

Of course having said that I would have expected a message from management asking me to work on his secondaries as he is still on primaries training which I have not received but let us not criticize someone for the sake of it or because you would have done things differently. Everyone has different thoughts for how they want to proceed and if they have been voted in, let them work with their plan. Works- Great, Doesn't work- they get shown the door next time.

As for his skills- WC keeping, batting excep (last pop in feb so should be close to WC), tech- excep (last pop in May).

The other 2 questions are good but don't think you will recieve a reply by posting here as I don;t think any of them are active on forums. Try messaging them if you need a response. :thumbsup
I sent Helen an IGM immediately after I posted my questions. One of the good things that have happened in recent seasons has been the explicit expectation that national managers attempt to promote community engagement, so I hope Helen finds the time to answer my questions on the forums for everyone to see.

With regards to Fidock, it's all relative at the end of the day. I haven't got access to the Zimbabwe squad, but I do think it's fair to ask the thinking behind Fidock's suggestion, especially given Zimbabwe have lost all 3 games.
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Chepu
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chepu » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:23 pm

TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:17 pm
Chepu wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm
TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm

1) What skills or attributes contributed to them selecting a 24-year-old batsman (Rick Fidock) in the touring squad? Does the management team believe secondaries are relevant?
Sorry I am not involved in Zimbabwe and this reply is not because Fidock is my player- But here is my response for this question-

If Fidock was in Kenya he would have walked into best xi last season itself. And there are a number of teams touring young players with low secondaries (or at least did last season). If you lack in some parameter I would definitely want someone with high primaries and low secondaries who is 24 or 25 or 26 than have a 29 yo with lower primaries and better secondaries and then look into filling that gap again in 1 or 2 season when that guy plops with another stop gap average player.

Of course having said that I would have expected a message from management asking me to work on his secondaries as he is still on primaries training which I have not received but let us not criticize someone for the sake of it or because you would have done things differently. Everyone has different thoughts for how they want to proceed and if they have been voted in, let them work with their plan. Works- Great, Doesn't work- they get shown the door next time.

As for his skills- WC keeping, batting excep (last pop in feb so should be close to WC), tech- excep (last pop in May).

The other 2 questions are good but don't think you will recieve a reply by posting here as I don;t think any of them are active on forums. Try messaging them if you need a response. :thumbsup
I sent Helen an IGM immediately after I posted my questions. One of the good things that have happened in recent seasons has been the explicit expectation that national managers attempt to promote community engagement, so I hope Helen finds the time to answer my questions on the forums for everyone to see.

With regards to Fidock, it's all relative at the end of the day. I haven't got access to the Zimbabwe squad, but I do think it's fair to ask the thinking behind Fidock's suggestion, especially given Zimbabwe have lost all 3 games.
and why would you want to know the thinking behind a player's selection just on the basis of his age when you don't even know his skills? Could have been possible that he had good secondaries. why can't a young player be good enough to play NATs? I have toured quite a few 25 and 26 year olds with low secondaries last 3 seasons and they have all done the job as well as I would have liked. In fact 2 bowlers with expert endurance and expert experience have taken 8 wickets in 2 games so far this week for me. Like I said- everyone has their own though process and if the community has given them a chance then let them do it. If everyone did the same thing then we wouldn't need elections.


And yeah a NAT manager needs to be more involved with community and it is a part of the Code of Conduct too so let us hope she starts posting on forums.
Kenya NAT manager (Season 43-52), Zimbabwe U19 manager (Season 30-41), India U19 manager (Season 24-25)
Champions- U19 T20 WC S35, U19 OD Division 1 S31 & S33, NAT OD Division 1 S45 & S46, Zimbabwe T20 1.1- S47 & S49, YOD 1.1 - S44 & S33,
Runner up- U19 OD WC S32 & S26, Semifinalist- U19 T20 WC S31, NAT OD WC S45, NAT T20 WC S52

TopManager
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by TopManager » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:01 pm

Chepu wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:23 pm
TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:17 pm
Chepu wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm


Sorry I am not involved in Zimbabwe and this reply is not because Fidock is my player- But here is my response for this question-

If Fidock was in Kenya he would have walked into best xi last season itself. And there are a number of teams touring young players with low secondaries (or at least did last season). If you lack in some parameter I would definitely want someone with high primaries and low secondaries who is 24 or 25 or 26 than have a 29 yo with lower primaries and better secondaries and then look into filling that gap again in 1 or 2 season when that guy plops with another stop gap average player.

Of course having said that I would have expected a message from management asking me to work on his secondaries as he is still on primaries training which I have not received but let us not criticize someone for the sake of it or because you would have done things differently. Everyone has different thoughts for how they want to proceed and if they have been voted in, let them work with their plan. Works- Great, Doesn't work- they get shown the door next time.

As for his skills- WC keeping, batting excep (last pop in feb so should be close to WC), tech- excep (last pop in May).

The other 2 questions are good but don't think you will recieve a reply by posting here as I don;t think any of them are active on forums. Try messaging them if you need a response. :thumbsup
I sent Helen an IGM immediately after I posted my questions. One of the good things that have happened in recent seasons has been the explicit expectation that national managers attempt to promote community engagement, so I hope Helen finds the time to answer my questions on the forums for everyone to see.

With regards to Fidock, it's all relative at the end of the day. I haven't got access to the Zimbabwe squad, but I do think it's fair to ask the thinking behind Fidock's suggestion, especially given Zimbabwe have lost all 3 games.
and why would you want to know the thinking behind a player's selection just on the basis of his age when you don't even know his skills? Could have been possible that he had good secondaries. why can't a young player be good enough to play NATs? I have toured quite a few 25 and 26 year olds with low secondaries last 3 seasons and they have all done the job as well as I would have liked. In fact 2 bowlers with expert endurance and expert experience have taken 8 wickets in 2 games so far this week for me. Like I said- everyone has their own though process and if the community has given them a chance then let them do it. If everyone did the same thing then we wouldn't need elections.


And yeah a NAT manager needs to be more involved with community and it is a part of the Code of Conduct too so let us hope she starts posting on forums.
In my 8 seasons as NAT Manager/Assistant. I've yet to see a 24-year-old batsman/Keeper who is ready to play NATS. It could be Fiddock is an exceptional circumstance. If Helen says there all the older keepers have Crud primaries, so she went with Fidock, I think that's completely acceptable. But again to repeat myself, I'm just asking the question.
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Chepu
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by Chepu » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:10 pm

SL did go with a 25 yo keeper last season. Yes the guy must not have been ready but they probably thought he was worth investing in and rightly so (and hopefully you guys haven't discarded him this season after investing in him). Like I said, with the keepers at Kenya, Fidock would have walked into our xi 1 season ago and he was only 23 then.

Yes, it is fair to ask questions and hopefully you get the answers :thumbsup
Kenya NAT manager (Season 43-52), Zimbabwe U19 manager (Season 30-41), India U19 manager (Season 24-25)
Champions- U19 T20 WC S35, U19 OD Division 1 S31 & S33, NAT OD Division 1 S45 & S46, Zimbabwe T20 1.1- S47 & S49, YOD 1.1 - S44 & S33,
Runner up- U19 OD WC S32 & S26, Semifinalist- U19 T20 WC S31, NAT OD WC S45, NAT T20 WC S52

CoachKnapovic
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by CoachKnapovic » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:13 pm

YorkshirePudding wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:25 am
I see the last post was from January and it is now August.

I was rather surprised to see my club number 10 with average batting and a capable summary (One Day batting average of 6), got promoted to number 7 internationally.

Are there no Zimbabwean allrounders worth playing at national level? I know most of them used to be mine (Nicklin & Jennings above) but are there no others coming through?
I can say with a large degree of certainty that Zimbabwe is struggling for players. All nations do, of course, but the lesser supporting countries generally tend to have been hit the hardest with the user base dwindling during a difficult time.
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CoachKnapovic
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by CoachKnapovic » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:14 pm

cleanprophet wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:03 pm
Who knows? The current management set-up did the job a few seasons ago and were utterly abysmal. They'd been playing FTP for a reasonable time but shaped like a total novice. I'd hoped they'd be a tad more clued up this time around but it appears not with crazy team/squad selections and a string of losses. Ah well, maybe we'll get a proper manager in 2 season's time. :thumbsup
Perhaps trying to lend a hand would be more beneficial to Zimbabwe than negativity?
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CoachKnapovic
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by CoachKnapovic » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:16 pm

TopManager wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:32 pm
CP - Spot on! Unfortunately, I can't say I'm surprised having seen the orders Helen produced in her last tenure.
What have you done to offer or help Helen with improving that? Other than insinuating in a negative fashion that she is complete rubbish?

Your other questions are valid questions and I'm sure she will respond given time.
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CoachKnapovic
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Re: Zimbabwe Senior National Discussion

Post by CoachKnapovic » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:19 pm

Chepu wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm

Sorry I am not involved in Zimbabwe and this reply is not because Fidock is my player- But here is my response for this question-

If Fidock was in Kenya he would have walked into best xi last season itself. And there are a number of teams touring young players with low secondaries (or at least did last season). If you lack in some parameter I would definitely want someone with high primaries and low secondaries who is 24 or 25 or 26 than have a 29 yo with lower primaries and better secondaries and then look into filling that gap again in 1 or 2 season when that guy plops with another stop gap average player.

Of course having said that I would have expected a message from management asking me to work on his secondaries as he is still on primaries training which I have not received but let us not criticize someone for the sake of it or because you would have done things differently. Everyone has different thoughts for how they want to proceed and if they have been voted in, let them work with their plan. Works- Great, Doesn't work- they get shown the door next time.

As for his skills- WC keeping, batting excep (last pop in feb so should be close to WC), tech- excep (last pop in May).

The other 2 questions are good but don't think you will recieve a reply by posting here as I don;t think any of them are active on forums. Try messaging them if you need a response. :thumbsup
Just to chirp in here.

McInnins and Wettenhall were introduced into the England squad despite having lower than the generally accepted level of power. People have to start thinking more outside the box than thinking that a bat absolutely must have power at the same level or higher than his primaries. That simply is not the case and some of the best, most consistent batsmen that I have used at NAT level have had around the reliable power level.
T20 World Cup Semi-Finalist, U20 World Cup Finalist, World Cup Finalist
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